"Even last year, I just wasn't sure if it was worth it," said Darren Faulk, an auto-repair manager who will soon be asked to write a check for more than $6,000 to keep his four Seahawks club seats. "It's not just the cost of the tickets. You figure in the hassle, the parking, the $8 beers. We have a good time down there and probably drop $150 apiece every week."

Faulk said he's leaning toward keeping his seats, but only because he has lined up people to buy half the tickets from him. If he had to pay the whole freight, he'd let the seats go.

Local teams don't have the final numbers on exactly how many empty seats and luxury boxes they're looking at this year. But they know what they're up against.

"We recognize it's not just business as normal," said Bob Aylward, Mariners vice president for business operations. "We can't assume that in 2009, the way fans are going to make their decisions is going to be the same as 2008."

"It's discretionary spending, so it just depends on what people value," said Terry Lefton of Sports Business Journal. "In the absolute worst economy, there might be fans who think sports is so important that they'll sell their car first."

This market faces a particularly dire situation - all the major Seattle sports teams are in simultaneous, sorry shape on the field. If attendance takes a dive, it won't be possible to know how much of that was because of the economy and how much was because the product was lousy. Wins and losses always have been primary revenue drivers.

"We do have a bit of a double whammy" between the economy and the wake of the Mariners' 101-loss season, Aylward said. "That's just the cold, hard facts. But conversely, we're blessed with some of the best sports fans anywhere in the country."

Bob Santucci, a Seattle diamond wholesaler, is a huge sports fan who for years has used season tickets as an incentive to pass along to good customers. But he's finding that a pair of tickets to see the Mariners play Toronto on a Wednesday night isn't quite the gift it once was.

"You have to be careful you don't insult them with those tickets now," he joked.

Santucci years ago dropped his Sonics tickets, and this winter decided not to renew four Mariners tickets. He said he's a Baseball fan and will still go to games frequently, but the season tickets don't make financial sense anymore.

"The economy is bad, and we need a return on the investment," he said. "Are we getting a return? The reason we're not getting a return is that the product is bad. If I was a Detroit Red Wings fan, I'd find a way to keep my tickets."

One Huskies football fan, a Tyee Club member since 1975, said many of the people who have been paying to keep their seats even though they're not going to games during the Huskies' struggles might cease doing so.

"In a stadium that size, there are a lot of good seats," he said. "I sit on the 50-yard line, but if I (don't renew) for a while, then come back, would I be willing to sit on the 30 or the 20? Of course I could.

"And in the meantime, I always know I can get tickets to a game if I want to go."

That thinking is sending shivers down the spines of team executives all over the country, for whom the season ticket base is a financial foundation for a lot of decision making. Single-game tickets are subject to the fortunes of the team and the economy, but season tickets are money in the bank.

"There is more angst right now over how to go to market with season tickets and pricing than there's ever been," Lefton said. "(Teams) are very nervous about people renewing.

"But right now there is more angst than there is actual impact. This is true uncharted territory. No one has ever been here before."

If you use the Great Depression for comparison, however, it indicates fans will give up their sports when times are tough enough. Ticket revenue for major league Baseball dropped 35 percent between 1929 and 1933, and the St. Louis Browns incredibly drew just 80,922 for the entire 1935 season. At least a dozen minor leagues folded.

But this isn't (so far) the Depression, and sports economics is infinitely more complicated than it was 70 years ago.

Over the holidays, many retailers responded to the economic crisis with deep discounts, keeping the registers ringing with 40-percent-off sales. So why don't sports teams follow suit? Why not slash ticket prices to get people in the door?

In modern pro sports, teams simply can't do it - between huge stadium costs and $20 million point guards, they're overleveraged. Selling seats for $5 might be great for filling up stadiums, but it can't keep a modern team solvent.

Instead of cutting prices, teams are responding by trying to find ways to add value to season tickets - valet parking, concession coupons and other upgrades. More teams are allowing fans to put their tickets on "layaway," letting them pay off the cost over time with no interest charge.

The Mariners have let fans make installments for years, and this year they are being more flexible with renewal deadlines as well, giving people time to decide and to find partners with whom to share tickets (people can even find partners on the Mariners' Web site).

This year the Mariners took the additional cost for "premium" games off the price of season tickets - mostly because customers said it made divvying up the cost tougher for those who share tickets.

"What all team sports have to do right now is focus and listen to our customers," Aylward said.

"We have to add value, make it more enjoyable. What are some programs that will resonate with this group of fans? We have lots of buckets of fans. Not all fans are created equal."

One Mariners fan said he used the economic uncertainty to his advantage when the team's ticket office called him about renewing.

"I used it as a negotiating technique," the fan said. "I told them I was still thinking about it, and it would color my decision substantially if I could significantly improve my seats. My seats were good before, but now they're really good."

Spending on sports extends beyond the tickets. Teams expect to see more families packing sandwiches instead of queuing at the concession stands, and restaurants near stadiums could take a hit.

Jeff Scoma owns the Seattle Team Shops, a seven-outlet retail chain selling all manner of Seattle pro and college sports memorabilia. He said the "triple whammy" of team struggles, bad weather and the economy made for a tough holiday season, but that high inventories for his suppliers made for some good deals for his customers. He doesn't think the economy will drive people away from the sports world in any long-term way.

"Sometimes when times are tough, people like to do things that are fun, and sports takes people away from the challenges they're having," Scoma said.

For Marysville teacher Ryan Hauck, sports is part of the fabric of life, not a frivolous expense. He and his family have had Seahawks season tickets since the first season, and they also have UW football and basketball tickets.

"We haven't gotten to the point where we're seriously considering giving (tickets) up," Hauck said. "A major part of our social life is sports."

Hauck said his family had cut back on Mariners games, and the Sonics before they left, and probably wouldn't travel as much to UW football road games. But he has no plans to cut sports out of his budget.

"It's a priority for my family," he said. "I would tend to (go to games) rather than put the money into a new car or new boat or something.

"Maybe other people enjoy it, but not to the point where they'd sacrifice. It's got to be a hard decision for a lot of people right now."\